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	<title>Comments on: A simple demand: let us record council meetings</title>
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	<description>Open data and all that</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Pederson AKA SpectateSwamp</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-1107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doug Pederson AKA SpectateSwamp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2013 15:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-1107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was videoing council meetings in Osoyoos BC Canada and nearby Oliver. Oliver enforced a resolution prohibiting citizen video and Osoyoos put through the same resolution. I would shoot 2 minute clips with a very quick &quot;stop Start&quot; between. Very little was lost and any specific video could be later looked at. What they didn&#039;t like was &quot;I was editorializing too much&quot; People could make comments on the videos. They didn&#039;t have control of the video either. 

Example: Staff were looking into the per diem rates. They got comparison from other levels of government. What the citizens wanted to know was: How much a year do we spend. Take a lunch we do. Why so much out of town travel. Stay home. That kind of thing.

The resolution prohibited video in any town facility. I had my own resolution to ignore theirs. They really didn&#039;t like it when I went into their &quot;open budget&quot; meeting. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XuLmtrhl3I     

I plan on running in the next election (may 14 2013) on a platform of total transparency. 

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/stonedan   I have 1 video promise up on Youtube and will start doing more as soon as I do my press release.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was videoing council meetings in Osoyoos BC Canada and nearby Oliver. Oliver enforced a resolution prohibiting citizen video and Osoyoos put through the same resolution. I would shoot 2 minute clips with a very quick &#8220;stop Start&#8221; between. Very little was lost and any specific video could be later looked at. What they didn&#8217;t like was &#8220;I was editorializing too much&#8221; People could make comments on the videos. They didn&#8217;t have control of the video either. </p>
<p>Example: Staff were looking into the per diem rates. They got comparison from other levels of government. What the citizens wanted to know was: How much a year do we spend. Take a lunch we do. Why so much out of town travel. Stay home. That kind of thing.</p>
<p>The resolution prohibited video in any town facility. I had my own resolution to ignore theirs. They really didn&#8217;t like it when I went into their &#8220;open budget&#8221; meeting. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XuLmtrhl3I" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XuLmtrhl3I</a>     </p>
<p>I plan on running in the next election (may 14 2013) on a platform of total transparency. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.telusplanet.net/public/stonedan" rel="nofollow">http://www.telusplanet.net/public/stonedan</a>   I have 1 video promise up on Youtube and will start doing more as soon as I do my press release.</p>
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		<title>By: Videoing council meetings redux: progress on two fronts &#171; countculture</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-734</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Videoing council meetings redux: progress on two fronts &#171; countculture]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2011 23:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] council meeting – see the full story here, video embedded below – following on from the simple suggestion I&#8217;d made a couple of months ago to let citizens video council meetings. I should stress that that attempt had been pre-arranged [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] council meeting – see the full story here, video embedded below – following on from the simple suggestion I&#8217;d made a couple of months ago to let citizens video council meetings. I should stress that that attempt had been pre-arranged [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Videoing council meetings revisited: the limits of openness in a transparent council &#171; countculture</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Videoing council meetings revisited: the limits of openness in a transparent council &#171; countculture]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] a comment &#187;  A couple of months ago, I blogged about the ridiculous situation of a local councillor being hauled up in front of the counc..., and worse, being found against (note: this has since been overturned by the First Tier Tribunal [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a comment &raquo;  A couple of months ago, I blogged about the ridiculous situation of a local councillor being hauled up in front of the counc&#8230;, and worse, being found against (note: this has since been overturned by the First Tier Tribunal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Taylor</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-590</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 00:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-590</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My local council, Cambridge City Council, allowed the substantive elements of its meetings to be filmed for the first time recently. 

They&#039;re not making it easy though; they&#039;ve banned filming public speakers, banned panning the camera so the individual speaking can be seen and not allowed me to sit next to my camera during the meeting. I&#039;ve reported on my experiences at:

http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/recording-council-meetings.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My local council, Cambridge City Council, allowed the substantive elements of its meetings to be filmed for the first time recently. </p>
<p>They&#8217;re not making it easy though; they&#8217;ve banned filming public speakers, banned panning the camera so the individual speaking can be seen and not allowed me to sit next to my camera during the meeting. I&#8217;ve reported on my experiences at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/recording-council-meetings.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/recording-council-meetings.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andy Mabbett (@pigsonthewing)</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-542</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Mabbett (@pigsonthewing)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The work done by MySociety on They Work For You (example: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=2010-04-06c.879.5 ) is exemplary; but then they&#039;re tying (through crowd-sourcing) video to an existing, verbatim transcript (Hansard).

Also, if videos are uploaded to YouTube, then, eventually, Google will caption them and make the captions searchable, and translate them:

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/automatic-captions-in-youtube.html

This technology is, of course, still in its infancy, so won&#039;t solve our immediate needs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The work done by MySociety on They Work For You (example: <a href="http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=2010-04-06c.879.5" rel="nofollow">http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=2010-04-06c.879.5</a> ) is exemplary; but then they&#8217;re tying (through crowd-sourcing) video to an existing, verbatim transcript (Hansard).</p>
<p>Also, if videos are uploaded to YouTube, then, eventually, Google will caption them and make the captions searchable, and translate them:</p>
<p><a href="http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/automatic-captions-in-youtube.html" rel="nofollow">http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/automatic-captions-in-youtube.html</a></p>
<p>This technology is, of course, still in its infancy, so won&#8217;t solve our immediate needs.</p>
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		<title>By: Spencer Wilson</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Spencer Wilson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not read all the comments, but would the cllr who posted the abridged &#039;video&#039; clips done exactly the same with &#039;written minutes&#039; in a press release?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not read all the comments, but would the cllr who posted the abridged &#8216;video&#8217; clips done exactly the same with &#8216;written minutes&#8217; in a press release?</p>
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		<title>By: David Pidsley</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Pidsley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In June 2010, the new Government asked Martha Lane Fox to expand her role as UK Digital Champion advising how online public services delivery can help to provide better, and more efficient services as well as getting more people online. Martha Lane Fox (http://RaceOnline2012.org) could support getting open council meetings, open committees minutes to wider scrutiny, boosting hyperlocal sites and engaging people through local data democracy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In June 2010, the new Government asked Martha Lane Fox to expand her role as UK Digital Champion advising how online public services delivery can help to provide better, and more efficient services as well as getting more people online. Martha Lane Fox (<a href="http://RaceOnline2012.org" rel="nofollow">http://RaceOnline2012.org</a>) could support getting open council meetings, open committees minutes to wider scrutiny, boosting hyperlocal sites and engaging people through local data democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: PaulGeraghty</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PaulGeraghty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And if a transcription of the meeting had been put online? Would there be so much hoohargh?

Videos of council meetings are so lame, a bunch of talking heads - imagine a transcription were available... searchable, Google-able, listen to the .mp3 in you dead-time (mowing the lawn, driving, watching Masterchef with the wife, whatever...). 

If you want to impress me, extract meaning from council meetings - and push it into my conciousness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if a transcription of the meeting had been put online? Would there be so much hoohargh?</p>
<p>Videos of council meetings are so lame, a bunch of talking heads &#8211; imagine a transcription were available&#8230; searchable, Google-able, listen to the .mp3 in you dead-time (mowing the lawn, driving, watching Masterchef with the wife, whatever&#8230;). </p>
<p>If you want to impress me, extract meaning from council meetings &#8211; and push it into my conciousness.</p>
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		<title>By: Scribe</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scribe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Totally agree, and aware I&#039;m semi-playing devil&#039;s advocate a little :) But I think the comparison to text content stands in this case - copying a quote from a webpage is one thing. Copying the whole thing is another (and helps solve issues of the original document changing, but may also introduce new discrepancies). Generally people only do this for remixing and Freenet :)

But linking to the original cite to provide comment on it is another &quot;solution&quot;, and one which is a) easy to do, b) provides a reference to the original &quot;time&quot; context (e.g. a meeting going on) and also the link&#039;s source (webpage, organisation, etc). Both of these have value to both the linker and the linked. 

I&#039;m not necessarily saying Jason was *wrong* or &quot;more democratic&quot; in what he did - more that, as someone that actually wants to find out more information *easily* in a *networked* public sphere, copying rather than linking isn&#039;t always the most effective method.

Assuming the council site doesn&#039;t allow it, it would seem rather more useful to put the whole video on Youtube, and link to specific time points. One could probably build a whole content summary process round that. (I might actually watch my council meetings then :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree, and aware I&#8217;m semi-playing devil&#8217;s advocate a little <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  But I think the comparison to text content stands in this case &#8211; copying a quote from a webpage is one thing. Copying the whole thing is another (and helps solve issues of the original document changing, but may also introduce new discrepancies). Generally people only do this for remixing and Freenet <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But linking to the original cite to provide comment on it is another &#8220;solution&#8221;, and one which is a) easy to do, b) provides a reference to the original &#8220;time&#8221; context (e.g. a meeting going on) and also the link&#8217;s source (webpage, organisation, etc). Both of these have value to both the linker and the linked. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not necessarily saying Jason was *wrong* or &#8220;more democratic&#8221; in what he did &#8211; more that, as someone that actually wants to find out more information *easily* in a *networked* public sphere, copying rather than linking isn&#8217;t always the most effective method.</p>
<p>Assuming the council site doesn&#8217;t allow it, it would seem rather more useful to put the whole video on Youtube, and link to specific time points. One could probably build a whole content summary process round that. (I might actually watch my council meetings then <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: countculture</title>
		<link>http://countculture.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/a-simple-demand-let-us-record-council-meetings/#comment-534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[countculture]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 13:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://countculture.wordpress.com/?p=440#comment-534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Looking at the PDF report, for example, shows that the first two issues you quote above – lack of respect and copyright grounds – have been dismissed&quot;.

Absolutely, but the post was not (meant to be) about this. It was that by using something that the council had put on the web (the webcasts), Kitcat was using &quot;the council’s IT facilities improperly for political purposes&quot;. Not only is this nonsensical, I think James&#039;s comment nails it -- that&#039;s democracy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Looking at the PDF report, for example, shows that the first two issues you quote above – lack of respect and copyright grounds – have been dismissed&#8221;.</p>
<p>Absolutely, but the post was not (meant to be) about this. It was that by using something that the council had put on the web (the webcasts), Kitcat was using &#8220;the council’s IT facilities improperly for political purposes&#8221;. Not only is this nonsensical, I think James&#8217;s comment nails it &#8212; that&#8217;s democracy.</p>
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